Money for Lunch – Bert Martinez, Host
Bert: Welcome. You know I was amazed at this great conversation I had a while back with an individual and we were talking about problems, challenges, set backs, whatever you want to call it. Surprises that we didn’t want. Whatever you want to call it. The reality is that these things, challenges, surprises, unwelcome interruptions ultimately what makes us kind of who we are, really. Adds a lot of zest to our lives.
Of course it could be overwhelming and it doesn’t seem like it’s that good but there’s an adage out there that if it doesn’t challenge you, it doesn’t change you. And I have to agree with that. And I’ve thought about all the things that have changed me. Something as “mundane” as fatherhood. My wife and I were fortunate enough to have five kids. I think I’m a much better person today, certainly a much better father, than if I would not have had five kids. I look at someone with a single child and I think, I think, you’re not even – a single child, that’s easy. Bottom line is it is about being challenged.
What’s so interesting, you look at these events that have popped up, things that have become very popular, Tough Mudder, these things are obstacle courses, they are made to challenge us. They are hard. We pay money to be challenged in those environments. We don’t look at the challenges in our life with the same gusto. We look at life as if we shouldn’t have problems. But really, life is but problems. The mediocre teacher tells, a good teacher explains, the superior teacher demonstrates, the great teachers inspire us.
That’s today’s quote, from William Arthur Ward. The mediocre teacher tells, a good teacher explains, the superior teacher demonstrates, the great teachers inspire us.
Let’s bring on our first guest, who is here to inspire us. Janet Britcher, MBA, author of Zoom Leadership: Change Your Focus, Change Your Insights, provides executive coaching to leaders being promoted. Janet brings 20 years of corporate leadership roles in Human Resources to her leadership development work. She has personally managed groups of over 60 employees. Janet, welcome to Money for Lunch.
Janet: Thank you so much Bert, it’s great to be here. I love your introduction Bert because I think the same could be said for leadership: about inspiring, great leaders inspire. Your quote is a great segue into our topic this morning.
Bert: Thank you – I think so too. There’s a lot, we hear leadership talked about all the time, most of us, want to be leaders, at least perceived as leaders. I’m not just talking about the board room, but the family room. Everybody has an opportunity to be a leader. But I want to get your take on this. There is so much said and written about leadership, have we become deaf tone to the word leadership.
Janet: I think as you imply, it depends on if we mean it in a role, or if it’s a way of approaching a challenge. I think of leadership as much broader. I’ve seen wonderful leaders in companies, who don’t carry the title. But offer fresh perspectives, innovation, work ethic. Creative problem solving. I see that people can do this in many aspects of their lives.
Bert: Absolutely. I read some place that sometimes you feel there’s a downside to all this focus on leadership. What is the down side and how does your program, Zoom Leadership, address it?
Janet: One of the downsides in leadership today is a focus on Focus. The idea that the closer you get to a problem, the better you will be able to handle it. Sometimes that’s focusing on the wrong thing. Like the old joke about the guy looking for the keys under the light, when he actually lost them over in the dark. So the focus sometimes can be on the wrong thing. You can be over focused. Sometimes in leadership I recommend that you can zoom out and look at the bigger picture. There’s a sense of urgency in the day-to-day problems that all leaders are faced with, yet sometimes pausing to zoom out and look at the bigger picture can be really beneficial.
An example from the news that I’ll use, you probably remember about a year ago the United Airlines disaster, in which a paying passenger was dragged from the aisles because the focus of that airline crew was over focused on policy. They needed to get more crew on the airline even though it was already full. They were over focused on policy and over focused on getting those four crew members on a plane that had already boarded. I use that because it’s sadly a memorable case of being over focused. Whereas if they had zoomed out to consider, is there another way to get that crew there? Or is there crew in the destination city. Or should we raise the amount of money we’re offering to ask people to get off the plane? In leadership sometimes leaders can get over focused. Backing out to make sure they’re focused on the right thing, shining the light on the right thing can be beneficial.
Bert: Yeah, I think that’s a great example. It seems to me that there’s so many take-aways from this example. Not only were they focused on policy. Somebody was focused on their ego. This passenger said, I have someplace I need to be. I don’t have that flexibility. They could have said, okay, let’s focus on some other people. It seemed like, the way this individual addressed his “no” really irked the flight crew. They focused all their frustration on him. I like what you’re talking about. They could have zoomed out and said, look we have to step up our game. Offer something else. Talk to more passengers. Explain to them what’s going on. We can’t take off until someone volunteers. But they were so focused on policy trying to, let’s not make ourselves later. So focused on on-time departure record. They were focused on the wrong thing. Let me ask: trouble shooting is naturally focused on what’s wrong. You suggest there’s a downside to that approach. How do you fix that? If we’re to not focus on what’s wrong – talk about this. Where do we go.
Janet: It’s a great question, and kind of an upside down answer. Which is why I wanted to bring it up. There’s a researcher named David Cooperrider, and he coined the phrase Appreciative Inquiry. The idea is, where is the focus. Generally when we think of trouble shooting or problem solving we think, what’s wrong? Let’s fix what’s wrong. But if you’re building a department, or organization, or industry, if you look at what’s going well, as you mentioned that you are raising five kids, if you’re always telling them what they’re doing wrong. They are growing up – there’s stuff they don’t know. It’s easy to find fault. But it’s not motivating.
If you instead, start talking about what they’re doing well, you can crowd out the challenges of what’s not going well. In other words, if you bring it back to corporate, let’s say operations is doing great, but customer service department is not doing well. Normally the approach would be let’s go into customer service, and point fingers, and assign blame and find out what’s wrong and change processes. But instead, if you look at operations and ask, what’s working? How do we hire people, orient them, train them, establish processes, why is this group working so well, then you find examples within your own organization. It’s a question of zooming in to what’s working well, moving the spot light from fault finding and criticism to what’s working. It’s so much more motivating and it reduces defensiveness. Which is a big challenge, with any kind of reorganization or process improvement. If people have been doing their very best, for you to make a change implies they have not been doing well.
Bert: That’s interesting. What I like about that approach is, you’re rewarding people by acknowledging what they’re doing right. Sometimes you add fuel to the fire: if this is working well, our sales are doing great, whatever, that is a great approach. Not only board room, but also the family room. We do focus so much on what’s not working and who is at fault.
Janet: Yes. It demotivates. Going back to your opening quote. If the role of leadership is to be inspirational, then finding out what’s going well can provide new information. There’s an example I have in my book of a surgeon who himself had an injury in his wrist. Because he was a surgeon he had a great network, and he went for a second opinion, and a third opinion and finally he went for a fourth opinion and each of the previous doctors x-rayed the wrist that was bothering him. The fourth doctor x-rayed both wrists, not only static but with an fMRI in motion. So he could compare. I love that example because it’s such a great metaphor. If you look at what is working well then you get new insights, new information, options, a new diagnosis and a new treatment.
And that same metaphor applies to leadership and organization effectiveness. If you look at what’s working and what’s going well, you can make changes. I had a client who was a leader, in a department where each member had quite a different job from each other. He was frustrated that the department meetings weren’t that constructive, didn’t offer progress, because each person was on a different project. So I suggested that at his next department meeting, to ask what goes well in our department meetings? He said that’s never going to help.
Well it’s an experiment, and all experiments as Thomas Edison reminds us, provide data, even the ones that don’t have the outcome that we want. He never used the word failure. So this client agreed, he would try asking this at his next department meeting, what is going well. He was astonished at the energy that the group had about information sharing, collegiality, and keeping each other informed. Here’s another example of looking at what’s going well. Then building on that, “it would be even better if”…So they did come up with additional ideas. If the role of leadership is inspiration, then a great place to begin is looking at what’s going well. Then move into, how can we bring ourselves a new perspective.
Bert: Yeah, that is a great approach. When you are talking about what’s going well, what do we feel good about, what are we proud of. It’s a different energy. Maybe your chest sticks out a little bit, and you feel good and you become more productive because you feel good. Versus “hey, you guys all suck, how can we suck less?”. It’s a different approach. It’s unfortunate, but it’s probably the way most families and corporations are managed.
Janet: That’s why I think it’s so important to keep in mind, where are you shining the light, and how can you bring in a new perspective. And that’s why I was motivated to write this book. It’s an approach that clients benefited from. I would ask, what if we look at this closer in, what if we look at this further out. What if we look at what’s going well instead of what’s going wrong. And any time you make one of those changes, it reminds your brain that there’s lots more perspectives that can be considered. Whereas when our brain gets stuck in a slot, and we don’t even think there is one other possibility. That’s when you get stuck.
But when you can think of one other option, closer in, zoomed out, shining the light in a different place, or as I describe in my book using the four different lenses, any one of those changes will open up stuck thinking, and open up new perspectives and new brainstorming. What I love about it is the leader accessing their own wisdom. It’s not, go read a book by the latest guru, it’s a technique for each leader in that moment to remember what they may not be remembering because they’re stressed. In other words, opening up possibilities reduces stress and opens innovation, maybe even playfulness, which is where innovation and imagination can lead you.
Bert: I like that, I like that so much. You mentioned the four lenses of leadership so let’s go through that. What are the four lenses?
Janet: I usually start with the think lens, because my clients are leaders and in that role you have to be very logical. So zoomed in that includes things like a budget or a pro/con list or weighted point factor system. Zoomed out, the Think lens would be strategy, should we find an alliance partner, what’s our three year plan. The second most common lens is Act, because my executive clients naturally need to do something. Zoomed in, the Act lens might include: call a meeting, make a phone call, interview a candidate. Zoomed out, Act might be relocate, find a new building, find a new geography. Make a move.
The third lens has gotten more credibility over the last many years, as emotional intelligence has been researched and provided evidence that emotional intelligence is really worthwhile. I call that one Feel. Zoomed in, feel is personal. How do I feel? So often we forget that that’s a valuable source of information. We think, oh that’s not logical, I’m an executive. But knowing how you feel is so helpful and insightful. Zoomed in it starts with “how do I feel,” and then empathically how might that other person feel. And zoomed out the feel lens might be culture, noticing the difference between Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts. They have a different feel. It might be, how do I want to show up in my community, how do I want people to feel about my company and my brand? Those are three out of the four lenses.
Bert: I do want to throw in my thoughts about Feel. That is probably overlooked. Because I do believe that how you feel is more important than what you know. In almost any given situation. I have had the great pleasure of interviewing a lot of super successful people. On many of their biggest decisions, came down to how they felt. Not the data that was in front of them. They had a gut feeling they had to take a different action. Because they went with their feeling, it helped them become super successful. In our world of legal this, and dot the I, cross the T. We forget that feeling is extremely important.
To me, one of my favorite examples about feeling, I’ve had, several years back, we interviewed 1,000 plus smokers to find out why they smoked. The number one answer was because they wanted to fit in with their peers. When we scratched that deeper, why, because you want to be accepted, you want to be loved, appreciated. If I have to smoke in order to feel loved, that’s what I’ll do. You mentioned culture, in a business culture if I have to do X in order to feel loved and appreciated, I will do those things. Every smoker that we interviewed knew that smoking was bad for them. And there’s a transitional pain they have to go through, because smoking is not natural. So you have to go through this pain of inhaling smoke and getting used to it. So how you feel is more important than what you know.
There’s a great quote about “fatigue makes cowards of us all”. When we have low energy, when we feel overwhelmed, it’s easy to give up. I’m tired, I just want to go to bed. But when we feel confident, unstoppable, we take different steps. Feeling, very important, number one in my book.
Janet: Such a great example. I was not aware of that research about smoking. But that idea of being tired and fatigued certainly links into that. So many of us run without enough sleep. Basic 101. If we pay attention without overriding how fatigued we are, not so much coffee, not so much Redbull, or whatever you do for energy, then if we actually had more rest we would be operating at a more optimal level. So that’s an important aspect of your research.
Bert: Absolutely. So lens four is what?
Janet: Fourth lens is what I call Witness. I know that’s not a very corporate sounding word, but here’s what I mean by it. If you’ve ever had the experience where someone comes in your office and plops down and complains or is agitated or upset and you’ve tried to be helpful and offer advice, then you know that’s not usually what they need. Usually what they need is to be heard deeply. So close up, Witness is that ability to simply be present, to have nothing else on your mind. To really be there completely.
In a zoomed out way, I would include things such as: sometimes you’re in a meeting and you’re really in the thick of the drama. Sometimes you can be watching like you’re on a balcony. That’s that idea of witness. In a more corporate setting it can include things zoomed in like, should we partner with a high school or college to help them develop a curriculum that will prepare their students to be employed by us, or zoomed out, it can be an organization choosing a community service commitment to payback, to give back to their world. To their business community and community. That idea of bearing witness, in a zoomed in way and a zoomed out way is very powerful.
Bert: Yeah, I like that, I like that. Let me ask you this. When it comes to leadership, what is your definition of a good leader?
Janet: It depends on the day you ask me – it’s fluid. Today I’m thinking about inspiration because that was your opening quote, and I think that’s really important. Another element is self-knowledge, self-awareness, which circles back to that idea of emotional intelligence of knowing how you feel yourself, and not being distracted by the static of what just happened. Authenticity and transparency builds trust, and leaders need to build trust, own their mistakes, encourage others, be willing to be uncomfortable, be willing to not know, because that’s really where curiosity can deliver a whole new insight. Those are some of the top things I think leaders need.
Bert: I like that. You hit on one of my favorite words for leadership, and that is transparency, and the other one is vulnerability. Do you think that a good leader would share their fears and concerns as well as their courage?
Janet: I think they would – there’s a caveat with that. Not in such a way to burden the listener and dismiss their own responsibility in addressing that vulnerability. Not, “Oh my god I’m afraid the board might fire me and we need a layoff,” not in that way. But in the “we’ve got a big challenge with things coming down the pike.” After the leader has grappled with their own fears about a challenge, and be able to present them in a way that’s authentic without laying the burden on the listener or on their staff. So I would say yes, with that caveat. It’s very important to share vulnerability. It invites others to share their vulnerability or mistakes, and paradoxically that’s where courage comes from. Knowing that you’re vulnerable, and have the capacity to face that vulnerability.
Bert: Yeah, I love that. I think that’s right. You don’t want to be, “oh my gosh I’m so scared, I think the world is going to end tomorrow,” not throw that kind of fear on them. But I agree, you can say, I’m concerned we may not hit this goal on time, do you guys have any suggestions. I think that’s absolutely true. That helps everybody look at the leader and say, this guy or this gal is human, they’re just like me. I think it’s sometimes, as leaders, we don’t want anyone to see those vulnerabilities. We just want people to see our shiny armor.
Janet: It’s much more enrolling when you can be genuine. It invites others to be genuine. And people can see shiny armor, they know it’s covering something, they just don’t know what.
Bert: Yes, and when they don’t know what, they insert their own answer. Let me ask: why did you become an entrepreneur in the first place. Do you remember what started you on that journey?
Janet: What really started me is my passion for leadership and my commitment to making the world a better place one leader at a time. Too often when people get promoted at every level, whether it’s manager to director or director to VP, they do not get the kind of support that we would give someone in any other role.
My pet peeve is we give baristas more training than we give most leaders. Because as an entrepreneur, you start a company because you were great at computer science, or technology, or whatever. I found both my entrepreneur clients, and my leadership clients inside larger companies, needed management support, and when they got it, it transformed their workplace, their day, their sense of success, their retention, and employees’ sense of commitment. It’s so leveraged. If you have a great leader, people will do anything for you and they’ll give you their all. I think if you have a great day, you bring your great day home to your family, and I think it makes the world a better place.
Bert: Yeah, I totally agree. As an entrepreneur, as an author, how do you deal with fear?
Janet: Paradoxically, I recommend for myself and others, a deep dive. Our knee jerk reaction is to look the other way, or pretend it’s not there, or work to over compensate, but I think diving into the fear reveals, what’s a risk: stature, outcome, awful prediction? Finding the root of that fear is the beginning of learning ways to address it. I think that’s where the nugget of gold lies: in self reflection.
Bert: : I do like that. Sometimes we are afraid of something, and haven’t done the deep dive to see where that’s coming from, may realize, we’re scared. If I write this book someone is going to tell me it’s no good. Then you realize you’re going to be criticized no matter what, you go ahead and write the book anyway. I find it humorous, I’ve met a lot of people, they may say, let’s get Japanese food, someone says no I don’t like it. “Oh what don’t you like about it?” Well, they may answer I’ve never even tried it. What’s a personal self-talk mantra, affirmation, belief that contributes to your success?
Janet: The work I do matters. This matters. Creating great leaders matters.
Bert: I like that so very much. It is important for us to remember that. A parting word of advice to our listeners?
Janet: Trust yourself, and find a few good confidants where you can get encouragement to explore more broadly and change your perspective.
Bert: I like that. How can our listeners find out more about you or your book?
Janet: My book is on Amazon: Zoom Leadership: Change Your Focus, Change Your Insights. My website is www.transformationmangement.com.
Bert: Thank you so much. Good stuff, I’ve learned a lot today from Janet Britcher. Zoom in and zoom out. You can do that, you can do that with anything. I like that take on leadership.